so an atheist should have to hide from Christians as to not offend them by not bowing your head during prayer. ok, gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketballguy
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so an atheist should have to hide from Christians as to not offend them by not bowing your head during prayer. ok, gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketballguy
The way that I think of it is this, Being a Christian standing in an audience of Atheists would I bow my head to pray? Yes. If an Atheist is in a crowd of Christians while they are praying, should they bow their heads, No. I wouldn't see any point to it. People shouldn't have to fake what they believe or don't believe. This whole thing is ridiculous, Stand up for what you believe in and don't conform to anyone or anything.
Just for the record sometimes when I pray, you can't even tell it, I don't always bow my head or close my eyes. God knows whats in your heart and your relationship with God is just that, YOUR relationship. It's not a relationship between you, your pastor, and whoever, and God. Just between you and God. You don't have to prove anything to anyone other than Him.
If you don't believe in God, that is fine with me. I may not understand it, but all the same, its your decision. You can't force someone to believe in a way that they don't want to. Christians do it and so do non-believers. It would just be nice if everyone could have some boundaries and get along. I wouldn't appreciate someone coming up to me repeatedly and saying that when I die that I am just going to rot in the ground and have worms crawling in and out of my eye sockets because I know I am not. Because I believe I am not. Just as I am sure that non believers (or whatever the politically correct word is) don't want someone coming up to them saying they are going to Hell because they don't believe in a Heaven or a Hell.
I think that the best way to come across to anyone whether it be Christian or non believer (someone really needs to give me the politically correct term LOL!) is to be a loving,helpful, and caring person. IMO If you do that, then that is all that needs to be done.
Sorry for the long rant!:D
By no means am i saying atheist should conform to prayer as i am not saying Christians should conform to Satanic rituals.
Again, as i have said above, HUMANS should want to try their best to skip a situation at all cost. You know non believers have EVERY right to go up to a bunch of Christians and scream "Jesus is not real" but does it happen often? No.
Again i respect your beliefs if your are a believer or a non believer. The only thing i ask is to respect my beliefs( whether it be before a game, dinner, etc) and I will respect yours( whatever that might be).
R13 i just dont get where you are coming from, sometimes you say you are athiest, sometimes you dont, sometimes you get pissed when people call you one. My best friend is one, ive never seen him belittled about it, thats why i think you bring it on yourself. Ive got family members that are agnostic, nobody ever says anything to them, he openly didnt pray and walked out of the room during a prayer at my grandmothers funeral, nobody cared, they know the way he believes. You have got to be the angriest person ive ever seen in my life, and you are like what 19 years old? move to canada or something where you can be happy.
I remember that incident with your grandmother. It was the right and appropriate thing to do in that instance. It showed respect for her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky
On another note. I can see r13's argument. We, as Christians, are to live by the examples and life of Christ, not by what we think is right, but what we know is right. God does not tell us to "mock" or "belittle" our fellow man. Quite the contrary. Did Elijah try to force others to believe? What about Christ Himself? Did He try to force the disciples to believe? Most certainly not! They only lived their lives as they believed, which is what we should do as Christians. Yes, The Bible tells us to go and witness to all the world(II Timothy, Chapter 4) but it does not tell us to force ourselves or our beliefs on our fellow man. Even Paul said if you try and fail, to kick the dust off the souls of your feet and move on.
But I do have one question for your r13. You say you are agnostic. Apparently, and I may be wrong about this, but I get the distinct feeling that you belive in a "higher being". Even agnostics believe in something. Just explain to us your basic belief and maybe people would not hassle you so much.
You love attention, admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
And yet you want the entire nation to "conform" to your beliefs and principles as outlined here...Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
SeeQuote:
Originally Posted by R13
The same could be said to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
Uh it's not like I'm going to a church and doing it, it's in my work a lot at events/dinners, to ballgames and my graduation - it's not just something that can be avoided. Terrible comparison, a lot easier for you to avoid a situation with someone like a satanic group.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketballguy
No, not really. I just find it stupid to "pledge allegiance" to a FLAG. And if we're talking about what it stands for, well it stands for some great things and a lot of terrible things to, so I'll refrain from pledging any kind of allegiance to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk3
That's actually exactly what you're saying, that's completely what you advocated several posts ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketballguy
It just doesn't happen because we're being respectful. In these instances, we ARE showing respect. Are we talking and yelling or disrupting anything? Nope, I'm just sitting here quite out of respect, but just not participating in the act of prayer. That's showing respect, it's the other side showing zero respect when they act up in arms about it.
When have I said I was atheist? Go ahead and find the post, I have always said I was an agnostic, because that's what I am. And that's good for him, he's an exception, not the rule. I'm not the least bit an "angry person", if you knew me in person, you'd know how laughable you saying that really is. I don't do what a lot of you complain about, any politically correct way, it's not so fun when someone isn't politically correct when it's your beliefs huh? But I don't personally attack anyone unless I am, but yeah, really really laughable statement. I'm 20 btw. I'm happy here, a lot of things need to change and will continue to improve and I'd like to be a part of that, this nation really has a lot of things to work out...but move to Canada? Don't really know what to say to that, how about your side learn some tolerance and act right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky
I don't. I'm a secular agnostic, which means I lean heavily in the belief that there is no God, but no matter how much evidence I know is there that says there isn't a God - it's just no humanly possible for anyone to know, so I'm not going to partake in some arrogant certitude(like a lot of Atheists and Christians do) and say for sure I know one way or the other without a doubt. If I believe it can't be proven that is a God, I can't say anyone can prove there isn't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
Don't tell me what I like, sorry, I don't like that kind of negative attention and being treated the way I have by some. You continue to spout off about me and the whole topic in general, but always lacking an argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter
Where did I say that again? Nice try. But what was said is I hope more come to their senses and question and others overcome the stigma and be honest about their believes, so we'll have a bigger voice in things. We eclipse basically all other minority groups combined in this country, yet they still have a larger voice. As numbers grow and grow, numbers can't be ignored and the stigma eases. I really don't care if someone doesn't want free-thought/will and to question things comingto their own conclusions, that's what I want spread, don't care if they side with every belief of mine or not. Again, nice try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter
A lot of things could be said, doesn't make it true, unless you can show me proof of all of these non-believers trying to dictate anyones life and breaking the law...
Don't you think the men and women that have fought for and died for that flag deserve you to pledge to it? You preach about having complete freedom and free thought. Don't you think if it wasn't for those people we'd be alot farther way for freedom compared to what we have?Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
Waiting for that. Everyone someone disagrees with something like this, it's somehow claimed to be a slight on the troops or something. The pledge says nothing about the troops, it's an oath of loyalty to the national flag, feel free to look it up. It's for a flag, which like I said represents some good things and some bad things, but it's also just a peace of cloth too. So I find it stupid to pledge an oath to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk3
Troops don't risk their life and die for a flag, ridiculous to say that, it's just one of many symbols people take way too seriously.
It's a "symbol" that represent our nation. If flags are a just a pieces of cloth then no one should get offended by the confederate flag or the nazi flag then? right? It's not WHAT it is it's what it REPRESENT.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13